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Morons in the News: Court-Mandated Religious Therapy

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A man has been sentenced to jail for refusing to attend court-mandated AA meetings.
Posted by annoyed Klep on Dec. 18, 2002 19:38 UTC
39 comments from readers. Join the discussion!

A Toledo, Ohio man named Louis Peters was recently picked up on a drunk driving charge. The judge gave this man a seemingly reasonable choice. Either Peters could attend Alchoholics Anonymous meetings or he could spend 30 days in jail. Peters, however, opted for the jail time. This seems like a rather odd decision, and the reason for it surprised me. As it turns out, AA is a decidedly Judeo-Christian organization, and Peters is an agnostic.

I was unaware of this before reading this article, but it would appear that Alchoholics Anonymous makes many references to 'God' in its literature. Essentially Judge Osterud gave to Peters the 'choice' of religious indoctrination or time in jail. This of course is a pretty blatant violation of the First Ammendment, and Peters is suing with the help of the ACLU.

This case should be pretty open and shut. Forcing someone to choose between jail and their beliefs is not a choice, and I expect Peters will win without too much difficulty. What I'm curious about is if this type of sentencing is a common thing. That is, sentencing someone to a specific rehab program as opposed to, say, one of the offender's choice. It seems to me to be an issue that is easily overlooked, like having a Christmas sing-along in elementary school. Comments?

-David 'Klep' Kleppinger, Raving Lunatic

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Posted by Pansy Bedwetter on Dec. 18, 2002 20:06

I'd rather he be subjected to adverts of "God" and be somewhat better off to not drink and drive again then to sit sullenly in a jail cell for a month and have the possibility even more open.

Pansy Bedwetter: The issue isn t novel. Toledo Municipal Judge Francis Gorman said he isn t...

kemosabe: Perhaps Judge Osterud is distantly related frequent morons.org subject, Judge...

Random Guest: That's the problem. It's like the spanish inquisition on a very miniscule...

Pansy Bedwetter: Like being told to write about the evils of ectasy. Its all about the premise...

Posted by Pansy Bedwetter on Dec. 18, 2002 20:18

"'I don t believe the philosophy that there is a higher power that will assist you is necessarily religious,' Judge Osterud said."

Huh? A non-religious "higher power"?

watevr: Unless he's talking about shock therapy...3000 volts is high power.

Kallahan: ALIENS!!! WOOO!

Xenu: Hey, as a Galactic Overlord(tm) I can attest to the higher power of planet...

Technogeek: Didn't you use hydrogen bombs?

Xenu: Yeah, but only on those stupid $cientologists (rolls eyes)... Planet busters...

Technogeek: I don't remember that from Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri.

Not Registered Yet: Or maybe he was refering to (gasp) a legal entity like the law enforcement...

Ish: No, he was not refering to "a legal entity like the law enforcement &...

Ritewing: Actually a "higher power" isn't nessesarily a religious one. I personally know...

Pansy Bedwetter: so what the hell does gravity have to do with overcoming alcoholism?

Egoistic Suicide: When you fall down the stairs in a drunken stupor. If you have to eat all your...

Squidface: Eh? Last I heard, alcohol was a liquid, and liquids, as a general rule, can be...

Pellucidity: And that the power is interested in you, and can affect you? Still, a Buddhist...

Klep: Of course, that's still ignoring the numerous references to 'God' embedded in...

Posted by spatula from morons.org lair on Dec. 18, 2002 21:18

I've heard of cases exactly like this before... there was one maybe about 2 years ago. I might have even posted about it. The end result was a judge ruling that an inmate couldn't be forced to attend AA meetings.

Slavik91: I searched for Alchoholics Anonymous, but I didn't find any story that looks...

Posted by sIr-watermelon on Dec. 18, 2002 22:00

While the belifes issue is quite valid I do not think that AA is a good sentance be the person in question atheist, agnostic or anglican. The man is not nessarly an alchoholic and being thrown into a room where saying your not an alchoholic =dinal is rediculos.

Posted by Rusty-Nail-In-Tacked-Up-Hippy on Dec. 18, 2002 22:46

This seems identical to Cliff Walker's story, who's the author of Positive Atheism.

Posted by Pansy Bedwetter on Dec. 19, 2002 05:13

Court-ordered AA is rampant. See http://www.positiveatheism.org/rw/alcohol.htm

Posted by LeatherBoy from back room at the Ramrod on Dec. 19, 2002 05:22

And on the other side of the coin, many fundies refuse to attend AA because its use of the term 'higher power' is considered an insult to their GOD and so they deem AA to be too ungodly for their tender sensibilities. I believe they have their own fundie group called Overcomers or something like that.

Posted by HeyImQueer on Dec. 19, 2002 08:52

The idea of an alternative to AA is not new. In the area where I grew up, there's a group called SOS, which acts along the same principles of 12-step as AA does but disallows religious references in order to let agnostics and atheists feel more welcome. That's a good idea and I do believe that court-appointed treatment should give the option of choosing AA or a secular alternative. By no means would a lawsuit demanding choice be a frivolous one.

Pellucidity: Yes, but there are objections to the whole 12-step system, whether overtly...

Posted by SonicSamurai on Dec. 19, 2002 10:54

A christmas sing-along at a school dosen't get my panties in a wad, even when I see it. Also, this sounds like a really good move on Louis Peters' part. I mean, not only is AA the way it is, what if he dosen't really have a problem, and got pulled over this one time? Maybe he's not an alchoholic or anything, he just needs to remind himself he shouldn't be drinking and driving.

Posted by original thinker on Dec. 19, 2002 14:11

What the hell, go to AA and bring a Game Boy. I wonder if anything in the judgement required him to actually pay attention at those meetings?

Posted by VoiceOfReason on Dec. 19, 2002 16:45

AA is also one of the less effective forms of therapy, when it comes to treating alcholics.

Check out http://www.rational.org/

Posted by Friend of Bill and Lois on Dec. 19, 2002 22:01

Klep writes, "I was unaware of this before reading this article..." Dear Klep, you're also unaware that the statement, "AA is a decidedly Judeo-Christian organization, and Peters is an agnostic" is patently false, utter hogwash. AA welcomes Agnostics, make utterly no attempt whatsoever to convert or persuade anyone to change their religious views or beliefs. In fact, the fourth chapter of AA's "text", Alcoholics Anonymous is entitled, "We Agnostics."! Twice, on the first page of that chapter that 50% of all people coming to AA think of themselves as Atheist or Agnostic! AA is most definitely a spiritually based program. It is most definitely NOT a religiously based program. The membership are cautioned to "leave your Bible home." In every AA meeting I've attended (thousands), the word God is always used in the phrase, "God as I understand him." If an AA chooses to understand him as "Her" "It" or non-existant, that never enters into an AA meeting. If any misinformed person in attendance at an AA meeting happens to bring up Jesus, Allah, or any other babble specific to ANY religion, he or she is immediately interrupted and instructed that this is NOT tolerated! When we recite the "Serenity Prayer" which has proven life-saving for many of us, it is ALWAYS begun with the words, "We'll open the meeting with the Serenity Prayer, for those who care to join us." What I've just told you is true. If you believe me than it belies everything about Mr. Peters' "case" and the judge who "wronged" him. In most AA meetings, court ordered folks are welcomed and asked to "sit and listen" and not participate until they return of their own volition. Klep, you used the phrase, "But, it would appear that..." One of the many valuable lessons I've learned from AA is that things are not always as the appear to me. It's said in our circles that if folks "hang around for a few years, they either become an "elder statesman" or a "bleeding Deacon." If I were a "bleeding Deacon" I'd ORDER you to visit an open AA meeting, just leave your Bible home! Love, Dave F.

Klep: So the phrase 'God as I understand him' fits with atheistic beliefs how? ...

Klep: And when it comes to that prayer, would you force a person uncomfortable with...

Pansy Bedwetter: "We'll open the meeting with the Serenity Prayer, for those who care to join...

Posted by Confused on Dec. 19, 2002 22:03

I say just throw 'em all in jail. If you drive drunk, you go to jail. No option for AA or anything else.

Posted by Kat o Nine Tales on Dec. 20, 2002 13:20

Just out of curiosity, does anyone know if the man or his lawyer advanced to the judge the idea that the man would be willing to enter a non-religious rehabilitation program and that it was AA specifically he objected to? Or did the man in question just opt for prison straight-out, knowing that he'd have more than fifteen minutes of fame and grounds for a lawsuit on religious grounds if he kept his mouth shut, as opposed to suggesting other options? Of course, if the judge wasn't willing to consider it and it was suggested, as it probably should have been by a competent lawyer, then this seems to have grounds, but if it didn't even occur to the judge that another treatment program might be available or that AA was religious in nature, then it seems like a reprimand and a notice to the judges that they should give equal weight to equal options is more appropriate.

Ish: Good question, I'm curious too. The ACLU of Ohio is a bit behind on updating...

Posted by Asmor on Dec. 20, 2002 15:34

As you said yourself, it seems a reasonable choice at first. It never really occured to me that AA is religious at all, and I don't think it would occur to most people, especially if they hadn't personally experienced it. Even those that had might not think much of it, since 'god' is pretty much all around us (in god we trust, one nation under god, goddamit, thank god, etc etc) that it's pretty easy to miss unless you're specifically looking for it.

I'm not saying that it's any less wrong, I'm simply saying that it really is easily overlooked and the judge should have given him a choice (assuming he pointed out the grounds on which he objected to it).