Nicklas Johnson · morons.org - Superspy says "U.S. Constitution Deadly"

Reader-Submitted: Superspy says "U.S. Constitution Deadly"

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We have seen the enemy and it is.........
Posted by fed up Aeryl on Aug. 23, 2007 19:12 UTC
24 comments from readers. Join the discussion!

Freedom!!

Freedom of the press, freedom from unlawful search and seizure,

Coming soon!!

Freedom from opposing opinions that upset you, and those pesky gays, too!!

Seriously, what can be said about this.

"Q. So you're saying that the reporting and the debate in Congress means that some Americans are going to die?

A. That's what I mean. Because we have made it so public."

The answer was given by current NSA head, Michael McConnell, in reference to his recent testimony before Congress. The part where he testified about that now-legal wiretapping program. (Thanks, Harry & Nancy ;/ )

And to this I say......

So F@¢*ing What.

I personally was raised to revere the military. My mother was an Air Force brat, and the concept that a select group of citizens, volunteers to risk their lives, in defense of America, was a concept that recieved respect in my house. I still to this day, respect the military. I accept that they don't have choice in how they are abused and used by politicians and corporations in this country.

But still, that concept is strong for me, and for me it extends to myself. To protect America, our bedrock freedoms(that have and will evolve as our country matures) I think we as Americans should be willing to die, to protect those freedoms.

So if the fact that the government can't listen to phone calls w/out a warrant, and that this country can't throw people in jail, for posting something disagreeable in the internet, means that I might die.

So be it.

The Daddy State shit has got to stop. The three branches of government were not conceived to protect us from "terrorism." The military was conceived by our government to protect us from domestic invasion. Hell, the Founding Fathers let us keep our guns, they expected to people to insurrect from time to time.

If we preserve the freedoms of America, the concept of America will survive, long after we are dead and gone, regardless.

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Posted by spatula on Aug. 23, 2007 19:22

We can't live in a world where nobody dies. That's impossible.

Will people die because of freedom and open debate? In this case, I doubt it. Are they going to die regardless due to an attack of some kind or other, somewhere in the world? Almost certainly.

Frankly if the price we have to pay to prevent anyone from ever being attacked and killed is the complete surrender of our freedom, our privacy, and openness in our government, then that is too high a price. What's the point of living if you're not free?

Steve: Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave isn't it? To me, right now that...

Posted by Cold in MN on Aug. 23, 2007 23:26

From the transcript, McConnell seems rather matter a fact about it and what he says makes some sense (IMO). Of course, I'm from the let them go ahead and spy school.

I think if one dug into the whole spying business you'd find just about every administration has stretched the rules a bit one way or another. A chunk of of the transcript below and here's a link to the rest of the interview.

Q: Even if it's perception, how do you deal with that? You have to do public relations, I assume.

A: Well, one of the things you do is you talk to reporters. And you give them the facts the best you can. Now part of this is a classified world. The fact we're doing it this way means that some Americans are going to die, because we do this mission unknown to the bad guys because they're using a process that we can exploit and the more we talk about it, the more they will go with an alternative means and when they go to an alternative means, remember what I said, a significant portion of what we do, this is not just threats against the United States, this is war in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Q. So you're saying that the reporting and the debate in Congress means that some Americans are going to die?

A. That's what I mean. Because we have made it so public. We used to do these things very differently, but for whatever reason, you know, it's a democratic process and sunshine's a good thing. We need to have the debate. The reason that the FISA law was passed in 1978 was an arrangement was worked out between the Congress and the administration, we did not want to allow this community to conduct surveillance, electronic surveillance, of Americans for foreign intelligence unless you had a warrant, so that was required. So there was no warrant required for a foreign target in a foreign land. And so we are trying to get back to what was the intention of '78. Now because of the claim, counterclaim, mistrust, suspicion, the only way you could make any progress was to have this debate in an open way.

Q. So you don't think there was an alternative way to do this?

A. There may have been an alternative way, but we are where are ...

Q. A better way, I should say.

A. All of my briefs initially were very classified. But it became apparent that we were not going to be able to carry the day if we don't talk to more people.

Q. Some might say that's the price you pay for living in a free society. Do you think that this is necessary that these Americans die?

A. We could have gotten there a different way. We conducted intelligence since World War II and we've maintained a sensitivity as far as sources and methods. It's basically a sources and methods argument. If you don't protect sources and methods then those you target will choose alternative means, different paths. As it is today al-Qaida in Iraq is targeting Americans, specifically the coalition. There are activities supported by other nations to import electronic, or explosively formed projectiles, to do these roadside attacks and what we know about that is often out of very sensitive sources and methods. So the more public it is, then they take it away from us. So that's the tradeoff.

spatula: What he's saying sounds like a load of horseshit to me. Upholding the...

Aeryl: It falls into the Republicans fear context. They have convinced this country...

Cold in MN: This is simple civics really Simple civics, just like simple economics, doesn't...

Cold in MN: the following constitution to the point where it largely compromises the safety...

spatula: Then explain to me this: There was a legal way for this administration to get a...

Cold in MN: If what they were going to wiretap was so important to national security and...

Aeryl: It's a tough one to fight within traditional means. But, as spatula just...

Cold in MN: But, as spatula just explained, what they had was sufficient to listen to any...

spatula: The thing is, the Constitution does not tie the hands of the government when...

Aeryl: but not to the point where I'm want to sit on my hands in the name of...

Aeryl: dry the line, Umm, that should be "draw the line,"

Cold in MN: You are the one always saying the role of the state is not to protect people...

Aeryl: But what is national security? What actions could not be justified, by the...

Cold in MN: And you really can't believe "We are in the fight of our lives" against these...

Aeryl: So what if my rights haven't(yet) been infringed. Because it's not happening to...

spatula: Because it's not happening to me, I'm not supposed to care? That's the...

Cold in MN: That's the republican standard way of thinking about things. "If it doesn't...

spatula: To say nothing of all the puppies and babies and god-fearing Christian...

Aeryl: I honestly believe, that after 9-11, the people in this country would act...

Reynard: "I honestly believe, that after 9-11, the people in this country would act...

Cold in MN: The possibility of you dying in a terrorist attack, is lower than your chances...